SQ Omnipedia talk:General discussion

From Space Quest Omnipedia

I'm setting this up so we have a central place to discuss what we're currently working on in the Omnipedia, and don't have to guess or go to #sq anymore.

Old discussion has been moved to General discussion/Archives.

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1.7 e1ven

I've moved Mediawiki to 1.6- This should allow me to install some new extensions to try to combat this spam problem. Let me know if you see any problems. -Colin

The preferences page is all messed up.

--pcj 11:58, 22 April 2006 (EDT)

An error appears here:

http://www.sq7.org/omnipedia/index.php?title=Category:SQ7&diff=prev&oldid=9961

and here:

http://www.sq7.org/omnipedia/index.php/StarCon_Uniforms

The issue seems to be in the thumbnails.

--pcj 12:22, 22 April 2006 (EDT)

Various formatting issues arose throughout the Omnipedia.

--pcj 12:26, 22 April 2006 (EDT)

OK- It looks like it's an error in that it /thinks/ it has previews of certain files, when it doesn't... They work again if we change the size of the preview, forcing it to regenerate. I'll continue to try to resolve it.

e1ven

See Special:Upload too.

--pcj 02:06, 25 April 2006 (EDT)

Uploading is fixed. OK, the thumbnailing problem should be resolved. If you do see any images that are screwed up, appending ?action=purge to the end of the URL should resolve it.

-Colin

I'm still getting errors on uploading, this time when actually uploading the files.

--pcj 22:53, 20 May 2006 (EDT)

...yeah, it's still happening.

--pcj 12:26, 27 June 2006 (EDT)

Wasn't sure where to post this, so sorry if I screwed up. The Omnipedia logo shows the KQ Omnipedia's "King's Quest K". Is this a glitch?

Contents 1 Spammers 2 SQ help file 3 Sierra Wiki 4 Canonicity of Fan Games 5 Quest for Glory Wiki Opened 6 KQ Omnipedia? 6.1 Namespaces 7 Anyone Bored??? 8 Firefox search bar for Omnipedia 9 Star Trek references. 10 Omni spam problems

[edit] Spammers

What can we do against these spammers? Suggestions? I can make it logged-on users only, but that seems to take away part of what it means to be a freely editable page.

Rel=nofollow was supposed to solve this problem.

Thoughts welcome.

Also, what else would you like to see on the wiki?

-CPD

If you find something that works, do it on the KQ wiki too. --pcj - Talk 21:13, 8 December 2005 (EST)

I tried setting it up to block proxies. But it looks like that didn't help.

The problem with forcing accounts is that while, yes, the spammers are abusing it, Chris just posted a VERY nice entry, that we might very well not have had if we required accounts.

I'm working on it.. More ideas are always welcome. The spammers aren't getting anything out of this. It's stupid. -(Colin)

Uh, you could start by checking for "Best prices online".

--pcj - Talk 17:41, 2 January 2006 (EST)

Yes, I could block that specific text, and I have. My point is that this is reactionary, and has to be done manually. I'm trying to think up a better system that would work automatically. In the mean time, I've added this quote as well. -Colin

It's probable that these bots don't use the Omnipedia interface to submit articles. So, you could change the field names to see if that works.

--pcj - Talk 08:32, 3 January 2006 (EST)

The Omnipedia is now checking against a Mediawiki blocklist, and requires captcha for adding new URLs and creating accounts. Hopefully, this should stem the flow. e1ven

Looks like we at least need a block on the IP 203.190.250.106. Of course, this spam makes *even* less sense than before... it's just random gibberish. I'll never understand why people waste their time with this sort of thing.

Jeysie 15:37, 21 September 2006 (EDT)

[edit] SQ help file

About Sierra-

There's a lot of good real-world text in this file- http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/3838/sqhistory.zip

(Edit, you may need to get to it, by clicking here first, so the referrer likes you.

Was this written by Sierra?

e1ven

Yes, it was distributed with one of the compilations.

--pcj - Talk 23:59, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

Hrmm.. OK. Then it may make sense to pull in the information where possible. I don't think we want to box it, like we did for the Compost, but at least including the stuff..

Actually most of the articles it would go in are pulled from Wikipedia. It should probably be added to the original, and then we should sync with them.

I still want to be able to auto include pages across wikis. This beta of 1.5 doesn't do it right, but hopefully the final version will. e1ven 00:08, 8 October 2005 (EDT)

Eh, 1.5 stable's already out. I recommend subscribing to the SourceForge package.

EDIT: Scratch that, it's still RC, the SF text is a bit more confusing. But it's still the "recommended" version now.

--pcj - Talk 00:16, 8 October 2005 (EDT)

[edit] Sierra Wiki

Do you think it would make sense to add a General Sierra wiki, for things like VUGames and Sierra and link to that from here, or should we just make these redirects to Wikipedia?

Or even a Template- "This information is about the world at large. Please view it's enrry at blah.com."

Thoughts?

-(Colin)

It does sound interesting.

--pcj - Talk 00:00, 8 October 2005 (EDT) u may wonder to differentiate b/w consultants and agents but u may see many in lahore, karachi and other parts of the country how the educational consultants are misleading the students. who mostly want to go abroad even compromise on quality colleges in the uk and standard of education. but they often say some thing else and don't keep their words. but here is some thing different i found on the internet. planstudyabroad.com are providing online free consultancy services for foreign education to all around the world. i got much useful information as well from their excellent service. i want if some one else got experience with them as well. plz let me know before i can decide to mover further with them. http://www.PlanStudyAbroad.com

[edit] Canonicity of Fan Games

The omnipedia's policy about canonicity of fan games seems to be undecided :( . There seem to be four main options:

• Treat fan game information as canon, and include just like normal information.

• Do not include fan game information except in the actual fan game pages.

• Put fangame information inside the current Meta template.

• Put fan game information inside a template, something like this (Hover your mouse over this sentence)

My preference would be to include fangame information as canon, but I'm sure there will be those that disagree. I would strongly object to not including fangame information, or putting it inside the current Meta template.

What are your thoughts?

--Jibbles 12:36, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

The "Questionable Canonicity" template sounds good. Including the fangame stuff, but marking it appropriately (and not too intrusively). The dotted underline would be a bit too vague.

--Justas 12:43, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

There are problems with both of those templates though. See Space Quest Omnipedia talk:General discussion/Template Demonstration.

• The first paragraph shows the second template style.
• The second paragraph shows the second template style but with green text to make it less vague.
• The third paragraph shows the first template style interacting with a sidebar.
• The fourth paragraph shows the first template style interating with a picture.

--Jibbles 12:57, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

My thoughts:

We should definitely add fangame info to articles. I mean, we don't exactly have a large amount of new canon SQ info coming down the pike, do we? :P I'd nominate only adding info from completed fangames to non-fangame articles, though.

I'm in favor of any template idea that is not too obtrusive and keeps fangame info within the natural flow of an article. If we try to keep info annotated with which game it comes from (not a bad idea in general, IMHO) then it shouldn't be a big deal. --Jeysie 15:09, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Interesting idea in theory, but how do you propose to keep info annotated? Consider the following paragraph...

Early in his career Roger saved the galaxy from the evil Sariens, and the Doctor of Evil, Sludge Vohaul. He barely escaped their exploding ship and was awarded the Golden Mop. However, his fame soon died down and he resumed work upon a space station. Soon he was captured by Vohaul and forced to escape, eventually killing Vohaul... Or so Roger thought.

Annotated it would look like this...

Early in his career Roger saved the galaxy from the evil Sariens¹, and the Doctor of Evil, Sludge Vohaul². He barely escaped their exploding ship and was awarded the Golden Mop¹. However, his fame soon died down^GA and he resumed work upon a space station. Soon he was captured by Vohaul and forced to escape, eventually killing Vohaul... Or so Roger thought².

1 ^  This information is from SQ1

2 ^  This information is from SQ2

GI ^  This information is from the Galactic Inquirer

Somehow, I can't see that working. If we really have to show which information is from fangames, I recommend the dotted line approach.

--Jibbles 15:21, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Maybe the text at the end could just say

--Justas 15:26, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Yeah sure, if thats the template we're going with. I'm still unconvinced though. For instance, that template cannot be used for a single sentence.

--Jibbles 15:28, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Jibbles: OK, I guess annotated was the wrong word. (sheepish look) I just meant, for example, this snippet from the "Game Involvement" section of Latex Babes which starts a paragraph:

"After stealing a timepod and escaping from the Space Quest 12 era during the Space Quest 4 game, Roger ended up on Estros in the SQ10 era."

In one sentence you've established, "OK, everything that follows takes place in the specified era/area/game until I mention a new era/area/game." With the pertinent era/area/game linked, of course. (Which reminds me, I need to add a couple links to that article.)

There's plenty of ways to mention which game a bit of info came from without having to get footnote-happy.

At any rate, I should have specified that I was in favor of careful writing combined with something akin to the dotted underlines thing. Why not just keep the number 5 idea there, maybe add some highlighting or italics or something to the dotted underline, and list the pertinent games in the title attribute?

I vote against the "Questionable Canonicity" box... it would start looking dumb having to artificially separate out and segregate different bits of info. --Jeysie 18:14, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Sure, the dotted line template thingy could easily have a variable for the game it is from. As for the general recommendation of keeping note of where information comes from, I agree... although I do not think it is totally necessary in articles where the information is very general, or specific to only one game (as the category tells us that). I think it is much more important for characters, ships, droids, planets, etc. that are in more than one game.

--Jibbles 19:07, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Yeah, and what Jeysie has suggested could cause the information to become very wordy, especially if the games have already been mentioned.

I recommend mixing the dotted line and bottom of page approaches, and setting up a Space Quest Omnipedia:Canon Policy page for any additional information.

--pcj - Talk 19:21, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Okay, I've set up the FanInfo template and the [[Canon Policy. Please feel free to review them and comment.

--Jibbles 20:20, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

(sigh) Forget I said anything about the freakin' writing... it's nice to know that apparently I can't explain myself properly.

Other than that, I like the way the new template works so far. --Jeysie 20:52, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

I don't know if it's necessary to mention what may happen to Roger in a fangame until it's released. Information about the games themselves, sure, but why include it before it's released.

-colin

I agree, it isn't necessary. However, it does seem to be generally accepted. VSB has several articles relating to the game (such as Radon), Roger Wilco has an image from SQ7 and Labion has an image from SQ2x. I don't personally see the harm, especially since it is now identified as belonging to those games.

--Jibbles 21:22, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

I have to say that I agree with Colin, here. Games in development are necessarily in flux, so data from them can change at any time, and that's assuming that the game even ever gets finished (yes, I know, I'm such an optimist.) Far easier to work with data from finished games.

Plus, what's the point of playing a fangame if you already know half the plot? --Jeysie 21:38, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

First of all, I put the articles on there, so I can guarantee those are firm plot elements of VSB.

Secondly, the wiki's continually in a state of flux itself, so information which changes isn't that big a deal anyway. ;)

And none of the data submitted is revealing beyond the releases we've already had, and some even give it in a speculative nature.

--pcj - Talk 21:46, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

I'm with pcj on this one (makes a change ;)). None of the articles are giving away anything major, and the wiki is easily changed.

--Jibbles 22:05, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

I guess it just seems to me like an encyclopedia should be based on existing facts, for lack of a better way to phrase it. Not to mention, are we OK with the idea of anyone starting up or working on a fangame adding their fan info to existing non-fan articles, regardless of whether the game is likely to ever be finished or not?

Plus it opens up a possible can of worms should anyone ever decide to "leak" to the Omnipedia. (Though granted, I think just about every fangame has at least one Omnipedia editor at this point.)

And true, the wiki is constantly in a state of flux... I'm just a lazy person who is advocate of not making more work for oneself than necessary. ;) Then again, I'm only good at copyediting, so it really doesn't matter much to me.

On a different note of curiosity, what happens if we end up with two fangames with contradictory information on a given thing? Stick it in "Plot Inconsistencies", perhaps? --Jeysie 22:15, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Regarding "anyone starying up or working on a fangame", the policy is set out in the canon policy linked above. They must have a website, must release status reports and must have released some form of media (screenshots, concept art). If they fail these criteria, they can't add their information, and if they stop, the information is removed. Of course, all fangames can have one page, we'll just add these straight to the cancelled/on hold category as soon as it is forgotten.

Regarding leakage, that is a possibility anyway - regardless of our policy. However, the canon policy states that only information that has been officially released may be added.

Regarding the wiki being in a state of flux, I am an advocate of creating more work for myself if it provides a better product. I've been keeping on top of SQ2x for instance.

Regarding contradictory information from fangames, yeah stick it in a plot inconsistencies and highlight the inconsistency with the FanInfo template.

Just my thoughts, and of course if the majority decides, the canon policies can easily be changed.

--Jibbles 22:59, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Hmm. Well, still seems like a lot of bother to me... however, seeing as how every other attempt at a gathering point for SQ fangames has tanked, offering up sections of Omnipedia whiteboard does fill a useful community niche. That seems as fair a policy as possible if you're going to go about doing it. --Jeysie 23:23, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

[edit] Quest for Glory Wiki Opened

Hello, I didn't want just Space Quest to get the wiki treatment so I have just opened a wiki for Quest for Glory. Right now absolutely nothing has been edited by me. I think I'd leave it to the wiki experts to do the structuring. So, anyway, if you think you can help out with this little project, please stop on by (http://lightingguy.info/wiki) -JasonT

Hey Jason,

Sounds great! I'll look into it.

--pcj - Talk 08:50, 29 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Pcj, you are all setup over at QFGE. Thanks for your help!

-JasonT 13:50, 29 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Pcj, would you mind if I use your Character template for the QFG wiki?

JasonT 13:51, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Jason, if you're interested, I'd be happy to host that wiki on SQ7.org.. If not, that's OK. I had thought it might make sense to try to create a set of linked wikis, one for each series, but I hadn't gone further with that plan yet.

-Colin

Jason, it's not mine in particular...but sure, it's not like it's propietary code or anything.

--pcj - Talk 17:55, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)

The Kings Quest component to the Omnipedia has launched, although there is not yet any content there. I'd appreciate any thoughts, edits, pages, or e-mails to Jeysie, telling her it's up ;)

-Colin

LOL! Why? I'm right here. ;) I honestly don't have a heck of a lot to add... I haven't played many KQ games. Might I suggest posting at the AGDI, Sierra Planet, and KQ9 forums? There'd probably be several people there more than happy to come and help.

Hmm. Although I can at least get you started, most likely. I'll look into it when I get home from work. --Jeysie 08:35, 2 Aug 2005 (EDT)

[edit] KQ Omnipedia?

The SQ omnipedia is going well, and while I'm not a fan of the KQ universe (as of yet), I understand many people are.. There have been requests that we include KQ material here too, but I think that would muddle the purpose..

Is there any way to do linked wikis, like Wikipedia does?

Ie [[KQ:Sir Alexander]] or something?

Thoughts on the entire idea? Should we try to help others, or jsut screw 'em? ;)

E1ven 02:36, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Yes, but you have to set up the namespace in the database. As long as it remains a generally separate entity, I'm fine with it. Perhaps this could be a "Sierra Omnipedia".

--pcj - Talk 07:36, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

[edit] Namespaces

How do I set up the namespace, now that KQ is up? -Colin

Well, first of all, make sure the cookies are separate. Because if I log in on the KQ Omnipedia, I'm logged out here. And vice versa. ;)

A few SQL commands will correctly add the namespaces:

On the SQ table, put:

INSERT INTO `interwiki` ( `iw_prefix` , `iw_url` , `iw_local` ) VALUES ('KQ', 'http://www.sq7.org/KQ/index.php/$1', '0');

On the KQ table, put:

INSERT INTO `interwiki` ( `iw_prefix` , `iw_url` , `iw_local` ) VALUES ('SQ', 'http://www.sq7.org/omnipedia/index.php/$1', '0');

On both, put:

INSERT INTO `interwiki` ( `iw_prefix` , `iw_url` , `iw_local` ) VALUES ('QFG', 'http://lightingguy.info/wiki/index.php/$1', '0');

and maybe

INSERT INTO `interwiki` ( `iw_prefix` , `iw_url` , `iw_local` ) VALUES ('ST', 'http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/$1', '0');

--pcj - Talk 15:42, 2 Aug 2005 (EDT)

OK, That's weird. The SCI page has the QFG: Link working, but I don't think I added that one to the server. Is it in the mediawiki defaults?

-Colin

Eh, doesn't work for me...though I put it in there expecting you would add it to the database.

--pcj - Talk 18:10, 3 Aug 2005 (EDT)

For a while, the ST: prefix worked, but for some reason it no more does. Could you put it back to the database?

--Justas 05:25, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Can we set the ST and QFG namespaces up please? Theres quite a few links to them (especially ST) on the Wanted Pages page.

--Jibbles 10:24, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

[edit] Anyone Bored???

Well you can fix these if you like http://www.sq7.org/omnipedia/index.php?title=Special:Maintenance&subfunction=mispeelings&limit=500&offset=0

--Jibbles 00:38, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Well, as you've probably noticed, I've been bored.

I wanted to point out, however, that phrase misspellings seem to be a bit dicey. For instance, "play station" seems to be picking up articles that have "play" or "station", but not necessarily both words in the proper conjunction that would need fixing. --Jeysie 13:58, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Heh. Nice work.

--pcj - Talk 14:09, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Good work! Yeah, the wikipedia does mention that it sometimes throw up false positives. Words it consistently gets wrong (like play station, etc.) can just be removed from http://www.sq7.org/omnipedia/index.php?title=Special:Maintenance&subfunction=mispeelings

I just copied the entire list from wiki.

--Jibbles 14:10, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Argh. I ran the whole SQ4 Transcript through a spellchecker, but I can't get the idiot thing to submit without an error. If anyone has a spare minute, could you download the file, paste it into the editing box, and try submitting it for me? :P --Jeysie 18:51, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

OK. Once someone uploads the SQ4 Transcript for me (hint, nudge), that will take care of the current crop of misspellings. The Cyberspace and Roger Wilco Dialogue spellings listed are correctly incorrect. --Jeysie 21:01, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Yeah, the cyberspace one is a direct copy from SQ6, spelling is correctly incorrect.

BTW, well done!!

--Jibbles 21:17, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

SQ4 Transcript uploaded.

--pcj - Talk 21:56, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Thankee, PCJ. And thanks to Jibbles, as well. Copyediting is one of my few strengths.

BTW, what's up with the weirdness of the Special:DoubleRedirects maintenance page? I mean, obviously none of those pages redirect to the Help page... --Jeysie 22:14, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

There's probably a blank line underneath the redirect.

--pcj - Talk 22:43, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

No there wasn't. It seems that the fact that there was a redirect at all from Space Quest Omnipedia:Help meant that it also listed every other redirect page. Anyway, turning Space Quest Omnipedia:Help into a proper article has solved it.

--Jibbles 22:49, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

That's my other strength... finding obscure weirdly broken things. --Jeysie 23:24, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

test

[edit] Firefox search bar for Omnipedia

I've just thrown together a Firefox/Mozilla/Netscape search bar plugin for the SQ Omnipedia, if anybody's interested in grabbing it. It probably ought to be linked from the Main Page, but I don't have access to change that.

Install Space Quest Omnipedia Search Bar Plugin for Mozilla/Firefox/Netscape -Jaeden

There's no fitting spot for it to be linked from the Main Page as it is now...

--pcj - Talk 21:06, 13 November 2005 (EST)

[edit] Star Trek references.

Wouldn't it be easier/better to refer the Star trek references to wikipedia rather than internal articles?

--Leonard Kramer 22/4/06

They're actually interwiki links to Memory Alpha, but the database isn't set up properly.

--pcj 11:56, 22 April 2006 (EDT)

[edit] Omni spam problems

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this question, but here goes:

The KQ and SQ Omnis seem quite similar in structure, and both allow contributions by nonregistered users. Despite this similarity, the SQ Omni remains nearly devoid of spam, while the KQ Omni is utterly flooded with it (in the form of pages being edited to include a slew of hyperlinks [and sometimes new pages are created with the same content]). It's getting difficult to keep up with this spam, since by the time an alteration is noticed, a new set of hyperlinks has replaced the old one two or three times over.

I'm not sure if this is due to the KQ Omni getting more traffic than the SQ Omni or the result of spam control being much tighter on the SQ Omni. Whatever the case, is there anything that can be done about the KQ Omni's spam problem aside from frantically editing and deleting pages?